The Giuliani Papers

Giuliani's Deal With the Fundies

Did Giiuliani promise to support a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage to ease support among the crazy Christians this weekend?

Steve Benen notes:

Rudy Giuliani has a tough enough time dealing with abortion rights — he offers the convoluted pitch of being a pro-choice candidate who will oppose his own beliefs once in office — but he generally stays away from gay marriage altogether.

Privately, however, his pandering may have reached jaw-dropping levels.

"Tony Perkins, head of the Family Research Council, told The Hill Saturday that former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani (R) would support a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage.

Perkins said Giuliani told him in a private meeting that if the Defense of Marriage Act appeared to be failing or if multiple states began to legalize same-sex marriages, then he would support the constitutional amendment.

Giuliani did not mention the amendment or the issue of gay marriage during his address to the Values Voters Summit, but that position could win him favor with some social conservatives who view the former mayor warily.

Perkins said that was not enough to assuage his concerns about Giuliani, but “it was nice to hear.”

Fox on Rudy on Gay Rights

A little late, Fox News runs a story on the Gays for Rudy faux commercial.

The piece does add something as it includes some new comments from Log Cabin Republicans:

The leader of a gay Republican group, said the video does not do justice for homosexuals, and Giuliani's record to date has been one favorable for gays.

"I think that he has made it clear he believes in providing basic fairness for same sex couples. That's important. He also opposes efforts to write discrimination into the Constitution," Patrick Sammon, president of the Log Cabin Republicans.

Sammons is somewhat correct about Giuliani in the past. Giuliani present is another story. See previous post "Giuliani and Gay Rights: 1997-98, 2002, 2007

Giuliani and Gay Rights: 1997-98, 2002, 2007

In his current campaign Giuliani has re-stated his position on gay rights to make himself as pleasing to Christian conservatives as possible. The Boston Globe reports:

He began distancing himself from civil unions in late April, when his campaign told The New York Sun that New Hampshire's new law goes too far because it is "the equivalent of marriage," which he has always opposed for gays.

Giuliani's aides offered little explanation of what specific rights he would support for same-sex couples.
In an interview and follow-up e-mails, Maria Comella, the campaign's deputy communications director, told the Globe that Giuliani supports domestic partnership laws similar to the one he initiated in New York in 1998. The New York law primarily ensures benefits to partners of municipal employees.

The 1998 New York City domestic partnership law was the result of a political promise in an election campaign. Ten years later, another campaign is dictating his position.

In October 1997 Giuliani was running for re-election. His opponent was Ruth Messinger, Manhattan Borough President.

Giuliani was considered the easy victor, with even big-time Democrats such as Senator Pat Moynihan calling Messinger a lousy candidate. On October 21, 1997, The New York Times reported the most recent poll showing New Yorkers favoring Giuliani by 49% to 36% for Messinger.

That same October, Giuliani sent a letter to a New York State gay rights group, the Empire State Pride Agenda, making a pledge. According to The New York Times:

Mr. Giuliani sent a letter to Empire State Pride Agenda, promising ''in the near future to propose and lobby for passage of antidiscrimination legislation.'' The group, which had been expected to endorse Mr. Giuliani's opponent, Ruth W. Messinger, remained silent.

Giuliani won the election by a wide margin.

The following May, Giuliani introduced a bill to the New York City Council ensuring certain rights for 'domestic partners,' defined as unmarried couples both heterosexual and homosexual. Giuliani's bill codified and further specified executive orders signed by previous mayors.

Reaction to the bill was mixed among the gay community. Some said it was a great step forward. Others said it was mostly symbolic and would not add anything of substance to what mayors Koch and Dinkins had already ordered. The reality was that the bill was quite limited in scope (as were the original executive orders), basically affecting only city employees and the policies of city agencies.

Reaction by conservatives was not mixed. Local and national conservative and religious figures excoriated Giuliani. The Times said:

Mr. Giuliani seemed to be inviting trouble with a group he has become ever more conscious of: Republicans beyond New York. Many conservatives have criticized him over his support for gun control and abortion rights. Now, they have a new reason to reject the Mayor.

''By doing this, Giuliani has sealed his fate to remain, at best, a regional political figure,'' said Robert H. Knight, the director of cultural studies for the Family Research Council.

The Christian Coalition had a similarly scathing reaction. ''These sorts of measures undermine the messages of traditional morality that parents throughout the nation are attempting to instill in their children,'' said Arne W. Owens, the group's director of communications.

Today, Giuliani isn't looking for gay votes, much less need them. And the fuzzy definitions of how 'civil unions' differ from 'domestic partnerships' and how both differ from 'gay marriage' can work either for or against him, depending on the eye of the beholder.

The truth is, the '98 domestic partnership law did not do much to advance gay rights for New Yorkers. And it was not even close to current notions of civil unions, much less gay marriage.

It was the perception, not the reality, that most people remembered. The same is true today.

Giuliani would like voters to think he never really cared about gay rights. And maybe he didn't. Perhaps it was a political sham. Just another example of the 'gay friendly' pantomime that every modern mayor of New York must go through to get elected.

But...

Rudy did not need to make his pledge to the Empire State Pride Agenda to win the election.

And he did not need to keep his promise to the gay lobby in order to succeed in his second and final term as mayor.

And he didn't need to send the following letter to the Stonewall Veterans Association in June of 2002 commemorating the Stonewall riots of 1969. He wrote:

June 25, 2002

Stonewall Veterans' Association
70-A Greenwich Ave.
New York, NY 10011

Dear Friends:

I wish to extend my warmest congratulations to you on the occasion of the 33rd anniversary of the 1969 Stonewall Rebellion. The work of the Stonewall Veterans' Association keeps the spirit of the rebellion alive. The Rebellion was a triumph at a time when the struggle for Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Civil Rights was just beginning.

Over the past several decades, S.V.A. has preserved the spirit of the original rebellion and continues to work tirelessly for the cause of Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender and Human Rights in general. Your educational program is exceptional in helping others to learn about the cause, the history and to fight prejudice.

Again, I would like to extend my congratulations and commend you on a job well done.

Sincerely,

Rudolph W. Giuliani

Giuliani chose to recognize the gay community in those, and many other ways, when he was mayor.

And now he chooses to forget it.

For Giuliani in 2001, It Was Home Sweet Homosexual

It seems like one of those episodes of Star Trek where Kirk and company end up on a planet on which all the inhabitants live in a society that is just like the old American west or Chicago in the 1920s or Elizabethan England. We can recognize the people; they look like us, but something is off, something is very strange.

Look. There's Frank Rich, four weeks before 9/11, uttering sweet nothings into Giuliani's ear:

For the past two months Rudolph Giuliani has been coming home at night to one of the happiest marriages in New York. That's how long the mayor, in flight from his own marital wreckage at Gracie Mansion, has been a frequent sleepover guest at the home of Howard Koeppel and his partner, Mark Hsiao.

Mr. Giuliani was, of course, the first New York City mayor to don full drag to perform at the annual Inner Circle show. And now, just as the national debate over same-sex marriage is revving up again, he has become, as far as I can determine, the first marquee politician in America to openly bunk in a gay household.

''It is like 'The Odd Couple,' '' says Mr. Koeppel, who speaks in a gravelly New Yorkese not far removed from Walter Matthau's Oscar Madison. ''When Rudy leaves after breakfast, I ask, 'What time are you coming home?' and he calls me Mother.''

It reads like a dispatch from an age of innocence, when even observers as sharp as Rich believed that Republican talk about 'inclusiveness' might be sincere:

Most intriguing of all are the latest visible fault lines in the usual conservative American antipathy -- most of it in Mr. Giuliani's party -- to gay unions. The shift became visible when Dick Cheney, debating Joe Lieberman during the campaign, said that he was wrestling ''with the extent of which there ought to be legal sanction of [gay] relationships,'' adding, ''I think we ought to do everything we can to tolerate and accommodate whatever kind of relationships people want to enter into.''

Was it, in fact, real? Was Cheney's statement genuine? What did 9/11 do to that too? Can we ever know? What a difference a month makes.

Another message from a galaxy far, far away is contained in this link to the Stonewall Veterans Association and their compilation of artifacts from Giuliani's involvement in New York's gay community over the years.

Frank Rich's column from August 4, 2001 is below:

1 Mayor, 2 Guys, 1 Shih Tzu

By FRANK RICH
Published: August 4, 2001

For the past two months Rudolph Giuliani has been coming home at night to one of the happiest marriages in New York.

That's how long the mayor, in flight from his own marital wreckage at Gracie Mansion, has been a frequent sleepover guest at the home of Howard Koeppel and his partner, Mark Hsiao. Mr. Koeppel, who is 64, is a Queens car dealer who has been both a close friend and prodigious fund-raiser of Mr. Giuliani's since 1989. The 41-year-old Mr. Hsiao is a Juilliard-trained pianist who works at the city's Department of Cultural Affairs. They've been together almost 10 years -- are registered with the city as domestic partners -- and in happier times for the Giuliani marriage, double-dated with the mayor and Donna Hanover on New Year's Eve. Now they are doting hosts to Mr. Giuliani as he juggles his raucous divorce, his recovery from prostate cancer treatments, his waning months in office, his romance with Judith Nathan, his post-public-life future and, last but hardly least, his search for an affordable Manhattan apartment rental of his own.

I ask Mr. Koeppel: Is it unexpected that Rudolph Giuliani would be staying with an openly gay couple?

''I don't know if it's any more unusual than him wearing a dress,'' he says.

Mr. Giuliani was, of course, the first New York City mayor to don full drag to perform at the annual Inner Circle show. And now, just as the national debate over same-sex marriage is revving up again, he has become, as far as I can determine, the first marquee politician in America to openly bunk in a gay household. If this sounds like a sitcom premise, it actually has been one -- two years ago, on the series ''Spin City.'' But this is real life, and so I paid a visit to Mr. Koeppel, Mr. Hsiao and their Shih Tzu, Bonnie, at their vast 32nd-floor home in the East 50's one evening this week when the mayor was out.

''It is like 'The Odd Couple,' '' says Mr. Koeppel, who speaks in a gravelly New Yorkese not far removed from Walter Matthau's Oscar Madison. ''When Rudy leaves after breakfast, I ask, 'What time are you coming home?' and he calls me Mother.''

The spats, though, seem nonexistent. ''Gay people are very clean,'' Mr. Koeppel says as we tour the indeed spotless 3,000 square feet of a lavish spread whose decorations include Tiffany lamps, stuffed toy animals, a David statue, Mr. Hsiao's impressive book collection and a Chagall or two. ''But Rudy is very clean, too. He makes his own bed.'' Nor do the considerable differences in cultural orientation divide the threesome. Mr. Koeppel, though a Republican, is supporting a liberal Democrat (and frequent Giuliani antagonist), Mark Green, in this year's mayoral race. Mr. Hsiao is himself a liberal Democrat. Mr. Giuliani and Mr. Hsiao are both ardent opera buffs. Mr. Koeppel finds opera a yawn and prefers show tunes. Divorce makes strange bedfellows.

''We have a lot of fun with it,'' says Mr. Koeppel. ''I kid Rudy sometimes. I say, listen, if this thing doesn't work out now with Judith -- whom we're very fond of -- don't you think you've had enough? Why don't you come over to our side? And he said, you guys have an idyllic life -- you're very happy. He said, 'I'll have to think about it.' ''

Has the mayor picked up any pointers on gay life? ''I taught him a lot of expressions,'' says Mr. Koeppel. ''He didn't know what a Friend of Dorothy was.'' Mr. Hsiao adds, ''And I told him I met Vladimir Horowitz in a gay bar.''

Mr. Koeppel continues: ''He doesn't have any problems with it -- his only one is with Donna. He doesn't have any hang-ups socially.''

I ask if it has occurred to them that there's a rather striking contrast between the solidity of their own partnership and the rancorous disintegration of the mayor's marriage. ''I've thought about that, but I don't bring it up,'' says Mr. Hsiao.

''I think the fact that we have such a good relationship makes him more comfortable,'' says Mr. Koeppel. ''About four weeks ago I started venting to Rudy about Mark's fetish about pillows. I took him to our bed, which has about 20 pillows. He told me to calm down. He said, 'You can't get upset about things like this. You have trouble with pillows -- just imagine what I'm going through each day. You're so lucky to have someone like Mark.' Rudy got me so chilled out.''

The mayor's progressive record on gay civil rights notwithstanding, he has not endorsed same-sex marriage. But, says Mr. Koeppel, ''He did tell us that if they ever legalized gay marriages, we would be the first one he would do.'' Mr. Koeppel and Mr. Hsiao are in favor of the right to marry -- which, among other things, would give gay couples the same protections as heterosexual couples in legal and fiscal matters ranging from immigration and adoption rights to veterans' and Social Security benefits.

Though Mr. Giuliani himself doesn't give interviews on his living arrangements, his home away from home in a gay family has been reported in the New York press -- and caused no stir whatsoever. (The only controversy has come from reporters questioning whether there is a conflict of interest in the mayor staying with a financial supporter like Mr. Koeppel, who holds unpaid posts on some city advisory boards.) Even the conservative, often gay-baiting cultural warriors who have egged on Mr. Giuliani's bullying decency crusade against the city's museums have remained mum. Does this reflect a sea change in public attitudes, or at least Republican attitudes, about homosexuality -- or is it, in Cindy Adams vernacular, just another passing ''only in New York, kids'' anecdote exclusively for jaded local consumption?

I don't know, but this story does unfold against a pertinent political backdrop. Vermont's law permitting same-sex civil unions passed its first anniversary last month, and, as the state's governor, Howard Dean, said to Carey Goldberg of The Times, ''The institution of marriage has not collapsed.'' This week Germany joined a half-dozen other European nations, among them the Catholic country of France, in legalizing gay civil unions or (in the case of the Netherlands) flat-out same-sex marriage.

Most intriguing of all are the latest visible fault lines in the usual conservative American antipathy -- most of it in Mr. Giuliani's party -- to gay unions. The shift became visible when Dick Cheney, debating Joe Lieberman during the campaign, said that he was wrestling ''with the extent of which there ought to be legal sanction of [gay] relationships,'' adding, ''I think we ought to do everything we can to tolerate and accommodate whatever kind of relationships people want to enter into.'' Two weeks ago, as if to rein in Mr. Cheney, a conservative coalition rolled out a campaign to promote a heterosexual-only Federal Marriage Amendment. But the crusade already shows signs of backfiring. Some of the most withering attacks on the amendment and vigorous arguments in favor of same-sex marriage have appeared in bedrock conservative venues like The Wall Street Journal editorial page and The Washington Times, in op-eds by the writers Jonathan Rauch and Deroy Murdock. Could Pat Robertson be next? Though he once threatened a boycott against Disney over its lesbian-themed sitcom, ''Ellen,'' Mr. Robertson will soon be broadcasting his ''700 Club'' on Disney's new ABC Family Channel, where ''Ellen'' reruns could be programmed as a lead-in.

Polls show that most Americans are against marriage for gays and lesbians -- though by a less-than-whopping majority (lately about 51 or 52 percent). As has been true with all gay civil rights issues, attitudes change as more and more heterosexual Americans meet more and more openly gay neighbors like Howard Koeppel and Mark Hsiao. What this couple like about their friend the mayor is that unlike many supposedly gay-friendly politicians who patronizingly ''tell us that they tolerate our lifestyle,'' Mr. Giuliani treats them like anyone else, without any showboating or self-congratulation, privately or publicly.

''As far as I'm concerned he could stay here forever,'' says Mr. Koeppel of his houseguest. ''I could listen to him all day and not be bored with him -- not that I agree with everything he says. That's how much I enjoy having him around. Actually, I love him. It's not sexual, it's just mental. I have my preferences, and I don't find him attractive at all.''

Well, in the immortal words of another gender-bending tale, ''Some Like It Hot,'' nobody's perfect.